I came across a quote earlier this week and thought that this might be good to open up to discussion.
There are too many images, too many cameras now. Were all being watched. It gets sillier and sillier. As if all action is meaningful. Nothing is really all that special. Its just life. If all moments are recorded, then nothing is beautiful and maybe photography isn’t an art anymore. Maybe it never was.
? Robert Frank
Frank was quite known for his noncommercial work around the USA, although he was a commercial photographer for a part of his life.
His iconic and history changing photo book, The Americans, released around 1958, had severely deviated from the norms of photography in his day.
Today, you’d look at the images he shot as a precursor to modern street photography, capturing America’s culture in a different light, but back then, the style of images were unheard of.
I guess you could say that his style is what paved the way for what we would perceive as today’s modern images and perhaps most of the images found on Instagram; that is being free, slightly careless, and lacking respect for compositional rules, while adding feeling and creating a divergent yet accepted aesthetic for photos.
Robert Frank, apparently had shared this quote recently. “Recently” meaning during this time where cameras are readily available and 200,000 pictures are uploaded to Facebook per minute…
How do you feel about this quote as the world gets closer and closer to documenting every moment?
So, is photography still an art? Was it ever?
Tell me what you think.
who decides? and why? i love images and visual learning…
I could strum a guitar all day… but I wouldn’t be making music. In the same sense, I think photography in it’s true form has always been and will always be art. There is a big difference between purposefully crafting an image, and simply taking a snapshot then slapping on a filter to share on social media. To me the latter is NOT photography. But in this age, sadly, most people don’t differentiate between the two.
I agree with you and this is a sad reality.
I think Mr. Frank is absolutely on the mark! Do I need to know or care what someone had for lunch today? What their shoes look like? A photo of pee in a toddler’s toilet because it was the first time s/he went that way? I’m not kidding…this picture was recently posted on Facebook! Really?!?!?!
I totally disagree with the quote from Robert Frank. Art is certainly about capturing emotion and beauty in a moment. There are plenty of moments to capture. So what if there are many cameras capturing more moments.
David! I think this kind of aligns with a few things in my head. I’m trying to think in terms of what Frank would be thinking…
I’m thinking that if he’s right and everything is captured, and I mean everything (perhaps we’ll get to that point, perhaps not), then what is special anymore? If photography as an art is a capturing beauty and moments, and all of it is captured, is it still an art?
Think about what you are suggesting. Is it possible for every special moment to be captured? I can’t imagine how that is possible. Is it possible for every angle of Mt. St. Helens or the Statue of Liberty to be captured? Perhaps. But that doesn’t mean photography is no longer art. Art rests in the eye of the beholder: the beholder being the artist and the beholder being the person viewing the art. That art is often times seen differently by these two beholders. Can we possibly imagine that every artistic photo has been taken and viewed by every beholder?… Read more »
Totally on board that everything isn’t going to be covered and documented (thankfully… although maybe Google will aspire to do so). And you’re right, art is subjective, and maybe you’re right that someone’s accidental snapshot of their scissors on their desk that they uploaded to the cloud may be considered as art to a viewer. I personally feel and agree that emotion is a big part of art, and an important part of the creation and execution of photography– especially for me as a portrait photographer. A huge part of the experience of creating portraits are the moments that I’m… Read more »
I gotta contradict, Mykii. I think the appreciation of photography as art is increasing! As there are more and more mediocre images placed in our view, the ones that have been artfully made stand out even more and are more appreciate. I have many clients who have left me for cheaper and less experienced photogs, and many of those come back because they appreciate that my artfulness makes the pictures more valuable.
I say, Bring on the mediocrity! It makes me look that much better ;)
Alright alright, Levi… perhaps I redact my statements a little. Perhaps the appreciation of photography is decreasing overall from the perspective of those who don’t have interest in photography. I do agree that for us in the profession, it’ll make us stand out more. Some of my friends don’t use intstagram anymore just because they’re sick of all the food and random pictures… I’m sure they’d be more inclined to continue viewing instagram pictures that had meaning behind them, even if it is food… just needs some meaning– or captioning that provides meaning… or something of value… yah?
Yes, some of it. Always will be. A very complicated question. Kind of like asking if ‘words’ are art.
Super complicated… but I love what people have been saying though.. It’s fun to see some passion come from people
This just sounds like someone who maybe is going through “burn out” periods. Art is subjective to begin with and what one person classifies as art another may classify as complete garbage. Yes there are cameras EVERYWHERE now and almost anyone with a modern cell phone has a camera. The saturation of images will continue to grow as technology continues to push forward but that doesn’t make photography any less of an art form.
Thought #1: I’m fortunate to live 30 minutes from the Art Institute of Chicago. I’m a member and visit frequently. They always have photographs on display. Some I get and love and some I don’t get and don’t like. But, someone at the Art Institute has decided that the photos on display deserve to be given wall space at that prestigious museum and are therefore art. Thought #2: I take lots of photos of my children and grand children and also photos of my travel destinations. The photos are important to me as a visual memory of people I love… Read more »
I agree that art is completely subjective. What I find interesting, beautiful or thought provoking for me is “art.” I am a freelance photographer. Not all my images could be called art, not by me or anyone else for that matter. I think personally where Mr. Frank is correct is that we are bombarded with images that really don’t belong in a place where the general public has to see them. Keep the shots of your dog/cat/fish/boat/car/camping/swimming and so on to yourself and your friends and family. Use one of the plethora of image storage and viewing sites and keep… Read more »
Whord.
To recite a timeworn axiom, because I have no better way to say it myself, art is completely subjective. But are we discussing photography as an art form or the photograph as art? Camera craft in itself could be argued to be an art-form, most convincingly by those who ‘know’ how to use a camera, but then, how many pieces of work created could be deemed as ‘art’ when captured purely by accident? I believe that we all have the nature to see something different in any one image however, the mundanity of subjects (many of my own included) does… Read more »
I dig. Well explained.
Of course it is… not ALL photography, obviously, some, mine in particular, qualifies… =:o)
Oh no way… ONLY mine qualifies!! :P hahahaa
Photography is what you make of it. There can be art in everything we do, or everything we do can be mundane. As a programmer, I took great pride in creating elegant, efficient code. I want the occasional dance recital video I make to invoke similar elegance, and portraits to convey something beyond the ordinary. But, you know, sometimes…sometimes that beautiful, delicious Reuben sandwich that the person behind the deli counter made…sometimes that beautiful, delicious Reuben sandwich with its golden blonde companion with thick foam gently cascading down the side of a frosty glass—sometimes it just demands to be photographed.… Read more »
Art can be appreciating other’s art… it sounds like you’d have purpose and meaning behind those photographs though– something that is necessary in art! I’m starting to find that many inspired artists are able to explain why and how they’ve chosen go about creating their art… then the very inspired ones go past that and don’t need to explain, because you can just feel it.
Read “The Art Instinct”… if you can… I struggled.
I guess that’s the same with life, eh?
Indeed…!
“even a blind chicken picks up something [to eat] at some time”
(quote by unknown)…I guess that metaphor does apply to most digital photography today.
In the ‘film-camera-loaded’ days limited shots (24 or 36) did force the construction and composition to hold more importance for a ‘good’ shot. I still think its a good disciple for young photographers to ‘practice’ using that old technology for a short time, enabling future digital photographs to have more depth to them (compositionally or aesthetically speaking).
This reminds me of the movie “Mona Lisa.” Julia Roberts plays an Art Professor from CA in the early 1950s who decides to trek across the country to a very conservative womens college, and she ends up having to break down the barriers of those student minds who thought only the right kind of creativity, the right opinion, was the determining factor in calling something, anything, ‘Art.’ Art, as she stresses, is in the eye of the beholder. I’m so green to this world that all I own is an iPhone and PAS camera I bought 5/6 years ago. I’ve… Read more »
“Are ALL photographs art? Yes. The person capturing the image felt it was, therefore it is.” I think this is where the intent part kicks in. Quite possibly, there are many who just take a picture for the sake of taking a picture. I would say that there are many who do not view the pictures they’ve taken as art, but instead a matter of record and activity that they do to. Is car racing a sport? Yes. Are all drivers considered racers? Some may say yes, some may say no– just like all photographs being called art (I’d say… Read more »
True art is very difficult to define,and to become a true artist is a very difficult journey! Now anyone can pick up a camera produce a 1000 pictures and call themselves a photographer. There is no learning if they get lucky and get a few good shots and someone pays them for them. It takes away from the true artist, it takes away from the true quality of the art. There are fewer people willing to make the sacrifice to learn the craft to produce the art and therefore the art suffers! We have 1000 photographers producing mediocre work and… Read more »
who decides? and why? i love images and visual learning…
I could strum a guitar all day… but I wouldn’t be making music. In the same sense, I think photography in it’s true form has always been and will always be art. There is a big difference between purposefully crafting an image, and simply taking a snapshot then slapping on a filter to share on social media. To me the latter is NOT photography. But in this age, sadly, most people don’t differentiate between the two.
I agree with you and this is a sad reality.
I think Mr. Frank is absolutely on the mark! Do I need to know or care what someone had for lunch today? What their shoes look like? A photo of pee in a toddler’s toilet because it was the first time s/he went that way? I’m not kidding…this picture was recently posted on Facebook! Really?!?!?!
Yes, some of it. Always will be. A very complicated question. Kind of like asking if ‘words’ are art.
Super complicated… but I love what people have been saying though.. It’s fun to see some passion come from people
This just sounds like someone who maybe is going through “burn out” periods. Art is subjective to begin with and what one person classifies as art another may classify as complete garbage. Yes there are cameras EVERYWHERE now and almost anyone with a modern cell phone has a camera. The saturation of images will continue to grow as technology continues to push forward but that doesn’t make photography any less of an art form.
Photography is what you make of it. There can be art in everything we do, or everything we do can be mundane. As a programmer, I took great pride in creating elegant, efficient code. I want the occasional dance recital video I make to invoke similar elegance, and portraits to convey something beyond the ordinary. But, you know, sometimes…sometimes that beautiful, delicious Reuben sandwich that the person behind the deli counter made…sometimes that beautiful, delicious Reuben sandwich with its golden blonde companion with thick foam gently cascading down the side of a frosty glass—sometimes it just demands to be photographed.… Read more »
Read “The Art Instinct”… if you can… I struggled.
I guess that’s the same with life, eh?
Indeed…!
Art can be appreciating other’s art… it sounds like you’d have purpose and meaning behind those photographs though– something that is necessary in art! I’m starting to find that many inspired artists are able to explain why and how they’ve chosen go about creating their art… then the very inspired ones go past that and don’t need to explain, because you can just feel it.
I totally disagree with the quote from Robert Frank. Art is certainly about capturing emotion and beauty in a moment. There are plenty of moments to capture. So what if there are many cameras capturing more moments.
David! I think this kind of aligns with a few things in my head. I’m trying to think in terms of what Frank would be thinking…
I’m thinking that if he’s right and everything is captured, and I mean everything (perhaps we’ll get to that point, perhaps not), then what is special anymore? If photography as an art is a capturing beauty and moments, and all of it is captured, is it still an art?
Think about what you are suggesting. Is it possible for every special moment to be captured? I can’t imagine how that is possible. Is it possible for every angle of Mt. St. Helens or the Statue of Liberty to be captured? Perhaps. But that doesn’t mean photography is no longer art. Art rests in the eye of the beholder: the beholder being the artist and the beholder being the person viewing the art. That art is often times seen differently by these two beholders. Can we possibly imagine that every artistic photo has been taken and viewed by every beholder?… Read more »
Totally on board that everything isn’t going to be covered and documented (thankfully… although maybe Google will aspire to do so). And you’re right, art is subjective, and maybe you’re right that someone’s accidental snapshot of their scissors on their desk that they uploaded to the cloud may be considered as art to a viewer. I personally feel and agree that emotion is a big part of art, and an important part of the creation and execution of photography– especially for me as a portrait photographer. A huge part of the experience of creating portraits are the moments that I’m… Read more »
I gotta contradict, Mykii. I think the appreciation of photography as art is increasing! As there are more and more mediocre images placed in our view, the ones that have been artfully made stand out even more and are more appreciate. I have many clients who have left me for cheaper and less experienced photogs, and many of those come back because they appreciate that my artfulness makes the pictures more valuable.
I say, Bring on the mediocrity! It makes me look that much better ;)
Alright alright, Levi… perhaps I redact my statements a little. Perhaps the appreciation of photography is decreasing overall from the perspective of those who don’t have interest in photography. I do agree that for us in the profession, it’ll make us stand out more. Some of my friends don’t use intstagram anymore just because they’re sick of all the food and random pictures… I’m sure they’d be more inclined to continue viewing instagram pictures that had meaning behind them, even if it is food… just needs some meaning– or captioning that provides meaning… or something of value… yah?
To recite a timeworn axiom, because I have no better way to say it myself, art is completely subjective. But are we discussing photography as an art form or the photograph as art? Camera craft in itself could be argued to be an art-form, most convincingly by those who ‘know’ how to use a camera, but then, how many pieces of work created could be deemed as ‘art’ when captured purely by accident? I believe that we all have the nature to see something different in any one image however, the mundanity of subjects (many of my own included) does… Read more »
I dig. Well explained.
I agree that art is completely subjective. What I find interesting, beautiful or thought provoking for me is “art.” I am a freelance photographer. Not all my images could be called art, not by me or anyone else for that matter. I think personally where Mr. Frank is correct is that we are bombarded with images that really don’t belong in a place where the general public has to see them. Keep the shots of your dog/cat/fish/boat/car/camping/swimming and so on to yourself and your friends and family. Use one of the plethora of image storage and viewing sites and keep… Read more »
Whord.
Of course it is… not ALL photography, obviously, some, mine in particular, qualifies… =:o)
Oh no way… ONLY mine qualifies!! :P hahahaa
Thought #1: I’m fortunate to live 30 minutes from the Art Institute of Chicago. I’m a member and visit frequently. They always have photographs on display. Some I get and love and some I don’t get and don’t like. But, someone at the Art Institute has decided that the photos on display deserve to be given wall space at that prestigious museum and are therefore art. Thought #2: I take lots of photos of my children and grand children and also photos of my travel destinations. The photos are important to me as a visual memory of people I love… Read more »
This reminds me of the movie “Mona Lisa.” Julia Roberts plays an Art Professor from CA in the early 1950s who decides to trek across the country to a very conservative womens college, and she ends up having to break down the barriers of those student minds who thought only the right kind of creativity, the right opinion, was the determining factor in calling something, anything, ‘Art.’ Art, as she stresses, is in the eye of the beholder. I’m so green to this world that all I own is an iPhone and PAS camera I bought 5/6 years ago. I’ve… Read more »
“Are ALL photographs art? Yes. The person capturing the image felt it was, therefore it is.” I think this is where the intent part kicks in. Quite possibly, there are many who just take a picture for the sake of taking a picture. I would say that there are many who do not view the pictures they’ve taken as art, but instead a matter of record and activity that they do to. Is car racing a sport? Yes. Are all drivers considered racers? Some may say yes, some may say no– just like all photographs being called art (I’d say… Read more »
True art is very difficult to define,and to become a true artist is a very difficult journey! Now anyone can pick up a camera produce a 1000 pictures and call themselves a photographer. There is no learning if they get lucky and get a few good shots and someone pays them for them. It takes away from the true artist, it takes away from the true quality of the art. There are fewer people willing to make the sacrifice to learn the craft to produce the art and therefore the art suffers! We have 1000 photographers producing mediocre work and… Read more »
“even a blind chicken picks up something [to eat] at some time”
(quote by unknown)…I guess that metaphor does apply to most digital photography today.
In the ‘film-camera-loaded’ days limited shots (24 or 36) did force the construction and composition to hold more importance for a ‘good’ shot. I still think its a good disciple for young photographers to ‘practice’ using that old technology for a short time, enabling future digital photographs to have more depth to them (compositionally or aesthetically speaking).